Tuesday, October 9, 2012

Who is Responsible?

The question from the exam that most people chose to write about. Well who is ultimately responsible? If you could only pick one person who you feel is the MOST responsible for Joey Doyle's death who would it be?

24 comments:

  1. I personally feel that it is Pop's fault. If someone can figure out why I place ALL blame on Pop I will give you a prize/

    ReplyDelete
  2. After actually giving this some thought I decided to read the script to confirm if I right or not, it was Pop Doyle s fault due to his lack of involvement; to take initiative and stop Joey from heading out onto the rooftops. Clearly he had been in the apartment when he later on decides to show up on crime scene.

    Sergeant: You're Pop Doyle, aren't you, the boy's father?
    Pop [angrily]: That's right.
    Sergeant: He fell over backward from the roof—like he was pushed. Any ideas?
    Pop [aggressively]: None.
    Mrs. Collins: (blah blah blah guts)
    Pop [wheeling angrily and pushing her away]: Who asked you. Shut your trap. If Joey'd taken that advice he wouldn't be- (starts to crack up)

    The script above is testament to how Pop had already knew what was going to happen to Joey, but did not take in consideration of preventing that death due to his stubbornness/fear. Reinforcing the idea behind Joey's death.

    Who is reasonable for Joey's death? THEY ALL ARE! ITS THE WHOLE COMMUNAL EFFORT!!! THE DECEPTION, THE CONSPIRACY, THE SYSTEM... :3

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This is a great argument and is definitely supported by examples and quotes but it is not the reason why I feel that Pop is responsible for his death. But good effort.

      Delete
  3. ok, ok grammatical errors, proof reading would help.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Who is ultimately responsible for Joey's death?
    - The builders of New Jersey. For making that damn building so high.

    As Pop had been "on the docks all [his] life", Joey would have grown up idolising his longshoreman father. This would have been extremely influential in Joey's own decision to pursue a career as a longshoreman. Had Joey not become a longshoreman, he would have never of been murdered.

    Furthermore, as Joey's father, Pop should have disciplined his son better about giving "arguments".

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Again another good answer but ultimately wrong. Keep up the good suggestions though I am enjoying it. I did have a bit of a chuckle about the builders being responsible.

      Delete
  5. Joey essentially killed himself. He knew the consequences of 'ratting', as all the longshoremen did, yet spoke out willingly.

    Just a weird interpretation of why it'd all be Pop Doyle's fault, nevertheless, perhaps Joey spoke up against the mobsters to make his father proud. Maybe Joey felt that if he were to follow his father's footsteps, he wouldn't be a 'good' son. For in comparison of how much Pop's did for Edie (sending her off to school etc.) as opposed to him he could've felt unworthy of his father's affection and wanted to earn it. In summation, Pops Doyle is responsible for his son's death as, Joey wanted to just be a better son.

    Just some food for though...or a weird tangent :)

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Actually Mark you are still a long way off but so far are the closest to my reason for why I blame Pop. So not so much a tangent; rather getting closer to the way I think.

      Delete
  6. I think Joey is the most responsible for his death because he should have known that Terry was still apart of Johnny's gang and he should also know to how to secure his pigeons safely.

    I think why Pop Doyle could be responsible for Joey's death was because he wasn't a better "father" to Joey. Pop had had placed much more emphasis on Edie's upbringing than Joey's.Edie has never been exposed to the harsh nature of the waterfront since she was studying with the sisters. Joey did not have the same opportunities as Edie growing up which forced him into the life on the docks. We can see Pop's favouritism towards Edie when he's discusses his sacrifices for Edie "heist[ing] a coffee bag for Edie so that she can be a teacher or something decent.". We can see that Joey is completely ignored in this instance.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    2. The scene was situated in an apartment.

      Delete
    3. By far this is the closest to what I believe but you just needed to touch on some of the exact wording to be completely correct. Why did Pop favour Edie? This might help you get there.

      Delete
    4. Pop had favoured Edie because he knew she wouldn't last long in a waterfront that was completely controlled by men.

      Delete
    5. I'm not sure if this is true so I need some clarification on this. Apparently in those days women were payed less than men which would mean that Edie wouldn't be economically stable and able to live on her own if she was working on the waterfront.

      Delete
    6. change "and able" to "and not able".

      Delete
  7. That word starting in 'S' and ending in 'ism', is it 'Survivalism'?

    Pop Doyle believed that having the "D and D" mentality would enable you to "live longer". As he had spent his whole life "working and sweating... on the docks", Pop Doyle was the oldest and most venerable longshoremen. This meant that all the other longshoremen would have heeded his "advice" of keeping quiet, this creating the "D and D" cult following that gave the union all of its power. If Pop Doyle hadn't taught people to remain "D and D", the corruption in the union would have been eradicated long before it became a problem. This is why Pop is completely responsible for Joey's death.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. damn i like this. Brandon, you smart arse

      Delete
    2. Again another outstanding response but not even close. But I liked you link to S and ism through survival-ism.

      Delete
  8. I think it is the government's fault for not maintaining justice in the place. They also don't protect people who speak out.

    It could be Pop Doyle's fault because he believed that Joey can just grow up like him, living in the docks all his life. He also said that he gives advises to Joey which means that he is training him with his morals and beliefs (such as being deaf and dumb), because with this, he might actually live long enough in the docks like him. However, this did not turn out to be the case. Joey was more like Edie who does something about the situation around them. (Edie convinced Father Barry to 'stop hiding' in the church and help the stevedores.) Pop thought that Edie was the only one who needs to go out of that place because she is a girl.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. you have a lot of different reasons all combined in this one paragraph. If you were able to expand on one of these points in more detail you just might have it.

      Delete
    2. Pop Doyle: See this arm? It's two inches longer 'n the other one. That's years of workin' and sweatin',liftin' and swingin' a hook. And every time I heisted a box or a coffee bag I says to myself—this is for Edie, so she can be a teacher or somethin' decent. I promised your mother. You better not let her down.

      Stipulatism :P

      Delete
    3. Not sure what you're trying to say here. I am not familiar with that term and I googled it and still couldn't find anything. So if you could expand on this argument in a little more detail it would be greatly appreciated.

      Delete
    4. To stipulate is to guarantee or promise. So I just added an -ism to it. Giving it a shot because it seems to be connected to Pop Doyle's line. He promised his wife that he would make Edie's life better but he not Joey. So he did not really have a drive or motivation to make Joey's life better as well. (I based this through personal experience because whenever I promise myself or to any other person that I will do something, I have a strive to do it, but if I don't make that promise, I still do it but usually fail to accomplish the task.)

      Delete
  9. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete